We took an extended vacation, but the ladies of Wine, Women & Westeros are back to talk about season 6 of Game of Thrones! And also our deepest, darkest, fanfiction secrets and canned wine. We had so much to talk about that we’ll be doing at least one more episode, so stay tuned for Wine, Women & Westeros 6 Part 2: Too Many Queens!
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The coHosts- Nick Bristow, Michael ‘Thrifty Nerd’ DiMauro, Tim Lanning, Jennifer Cheek
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Side note, didn’t Sansa say to Littlefinger that Rhaegar raped her Aunt Lyanna in season 5?
Ps. MORE WWW!!
Haven’t had the opportunity to listen to the podcast yet, but I’m so excited for the return of WWW. I’m leaving this comment now because I just want to say that I love the new logo. Like, it has that simple elegance that wouldn’t look out of place on a fancy perfume box. Kudos to whoever designed it.
Just a quick comment on the idea that Sansa was written as someone’s perception of what a victim is. That goes for every character, and all people (men and women) behave differently to any given situation. Neither you nor I know how “a woman” would respond to a certain situation, we only know how us as individuals would react.
Also, I don’t think that Martin wrote as though she “had it coming”. That being said, there is a broader theme here of naivety and the damage that it can cause, and growing up the hard way. Sansa, Jon, Robb, they all have been burned (or killed) due to them not being mindful of the results of their own actions and being watchful of the actions and intentions of others. The idea that people in general are good, especially in this world, is very dangerous. Dany, on the other hand, learned very early on thanks to her brother that people instead have a tendency to be selfish at best, and murderous pieces of shit at worst.
I would go so far as to say that Ned being such an honorable man adversely affected his kids’ perception of the world. There isn’t as much of a gender thing going on here as some perceive, except for the fact that the way of this world is that women have to generally exert power from the sidelines. Cersei and Dany are changing that, but Sansa is still working within those confines.
Regarding the use of the word “rape” – Oberyn Martell said it repeatedly. His sister Ella was raped and murdered by Gregor Clegane after he had killed her children in front of her. Oberyn’s desire for revenge was his main motivating factor.
this is the best episode of the year. I would totally listen to this conversation as a weekly podcast. the dynamic is so different than when Jennifer is the only woman in the crowd.
the intellectual discussions here on gender, sexuality, triggers, rape and male violence are awesome. as is the discussion between “reality” and “fantasy.” as someone who was totally finished with the sex-planation and constant sexual violence – I appreciated the depth of the conversation. thank you.
(iron born call it “reaving” rather than rape in the Danyeras conversation)
(this podcast should also get sponsorship from an online wine club like brightcellars)
Just thought I’d point out that she has used the word rape a lot in past seasons. You mentioned Tyrion using in regards to Sansa in season 3, but Cersie jokes about it in the Battle of the Blackwater – saying that when Stannis wins all the hens are in for “a bit of rape”.
Oberon is the most famous example, obviously shouting at the mountain about raping his sister.
When Jaime and Brienne are captured by Bolton men Jaime tells Brienne that she’d better just let them rape her, and she asks Jaime if he was a woman would he let them. Jaime says he’d rather die.
So rape is brought up a lot in previous seasons. But you may just be the case that when the show sticks to the books, which is the case in all these instances, the word rape is used. When D&D write, they don’t seem to mention that word much.
I always felt like Sansa doesn’t used the word rape because of the world they live in. In this world for a highborn lady rape would be a dirty word. One would even think that because rape such a normal part of the culture the saying I was raped wouldn’t mean much to anyone anyway. Also in a medieval type situation there is no such thing as spousal rape. When you marry a women you can do literary whatever you want with her. The way I see it in Sansa mind Ramsey did many unspeakable things to her but I’m not sure if she’d call it rape because they were married at the time. She may not have wanted it but to her it was her wifely duty it just happens to have been with a fucked up guy.
I mean think of Margery and Joffery. Margery knew Joffery was messed up and their marriage would mean she’d have to deal with that which is why they had him killed.
I really enjoyed this conversation. I think hearing the panelists discussing the season of Jessica Jones would also be really interesting.