Founder and co-host of Cast of Thrones. Say hello on twitter. 
The most divisive episode of Game of Thrones is here! We were iffy on how this little plan of Jon Snow’s would pan out and I think we were mostly right about that. We also hoped that Arya would be smart enough to see past Littlefinger’s ploys but sadly we were disappointed. All in all, a head scratcher of an episode, but it could all be a ruse. We’ll find out for sure, next week on the finale!
This episode is sponsored by Space Tripping by Patrick Edwards! Go check it out!
Consider supporting us by going here: Patreon
The coHosts- Nick Bristow, Michael ‘Thrifty Nerd’ DiMauro, Tim Lanning, Jennifer Cheek
Subscribe and Rate on iTunes or Subscribe directly to the Feed Like us on Facebook
Podcast: Play in new window | Download
Subscribe: RSS
Love the podcast, but jeez this episode makes it feel like a hate podcast more then anything. I agree with a lot of it don’t get me wrong, but I feel you guys are being very nit picky without thinking of all the possibilities.
A lot of the stuff you guys attack is actually proved to make sense if you look it up. Travel times, ice freezing times, how far they were from the wall, etc.
Another thing is you guys talk about is how the White Walkers plan was shit because they had a lot of chances to kill the main characters. Though you guys didn’t talk about one of the popular theories that the main White Walker has a similar power to Bran. The whole plan was he let it all happen the way it did to get a dragon.
I could keep trying to justify scenes you guys talked about but I’m not crazy I can definitely see a lot of flaws too, just don’t think you guys give the show enough credit.
Like I said don’t get me wrong, I love the show and I love you guys, but I guess what I’m trying to say is I didn’t enjoy this episode as much because you guys pretty much systematically talked down on every single scene of this episode. I really enjoyed the GoT episode, and a lot of the stuff you guys talked about didn’t change my opinion at all it just made it seem like you guys really don’t like the show, and are just finding any way possible to talk down on it ya know?
Anyways we will find out whether or not this season was good in the finale and see how they wrap some things up. I guess I’ll be taking your side on a lot of things if they screw it up.
Yeah, we will see? I guess from the areas of the net I was on last night we are much more positive. I think the main issue is that this episode caused folks to look up the flying speed of birds and how fast ice melts. That is…a lot ha, ha.
Very true. No doubt that they are rushing this season and the next which is the shows real mistake. Can’t stress enough that you guys do make a lot of great points and made me rethink some of my opinions so you guys certainly aren’t wrong on a lot of things. Would still give 5 stars 😉
Just playing devils advocate I suppose and pointing out that there could be some reason behind the madness. They did make a lot of mistakes but the show is still one of the best I’ve ever seen. Think it deserves a little more credit then it’s getting I guess. I’m sure if someone not as open minded as me listened and had a high opinion of the show they would have a fit. All my opinion though so who knows.
No worries I’ll still be listening to every episode. Love hearing the casts opinions cause I will admit it’s nice to see a unbiased view. Super excited for the finally though! Hope they do this thing right.
None of the Arya/Sansa/little finger plot is compelling. I have been wondering why little finger is even still around. I’m bored with looking at him, bored with hearing him, and I don’t know why they would still let him hang around. Here is my hope for redemption.
Arya gained murder superpower, Jon rose from the dead and became a bad ass leader, and Bran has the power to know everything. The growth they have prepped us for with Sansa is that she has learned the politics/intrigue game game from all the stuff she has been through and drone Cercie and Little Finger. My hope is that the reason they are dragging through this dumb story line is to hit us with a big reveal that little finger thinks he is playing her, but she is actually playing little finger to show us that she is now the master of the game. Maybe she has been talking to Bran since he knows everything in the world and he’s feeding her info.
Bran indicated that he knows all Little Finger and his schemes. It would also give us some payoff for all the Bran story. So far he has only used his powers to be creepy. It’s a bit hopeful, but I junking could bring payoff to a boring plot line and the lack of Bran doing anything with his power other than be weird and awkward in conversation.
Did anyone notice that when Jon climbed out of the lake that Longclaws’s eyes wake up?
This theory is very silly and weird!
The Night King is not a mindless idiot and this episodes shows it, consider these points of view.
When know the NK is a super strong green-seer/three-eye raven nemesis and can see like bran but actually knows how to use his power.
I also believe that the NK controls his army like Bran controlled those ravens and that they communicate through the same fashion.
Jon killing the wight walker and all but one wight dying:
Makes perfect sense if you can imagine that the NK knows his armies weakness and planned accordingly. When he sends scouting parties out he has one wight that won’t crumble if the wight walker dies so the remaining wight can signal back to the rest of the army possibly directly to the NK. If the NK does control his army through some web like warging this would be very useful.
The wights collapsing the ice and waiting:
To catch a dragon you need to set a trap and use live bait, and you need the bait to stay in one place. This location seems perfect for this. You can even see in the show that the wights start to surround the crew almost instantly once they start crossing the ice, like they knew the plan was to trap them there in the middle.
The wights crossing the water one at a time and Sandor kicking the captured wight:
Sandor kicking the captured wight caused a reaction from the rest of the surrounding army, perhaps this ties into them all being connected. It also show that they have emotion.
The fact that they sent the wights back across the ice in succession opposed to all at once again shows they have some smarts.
The NK not using the javelin on Jon Snow while he had the free chance too:
The NK has bran’s power so we can assume that he knows who Jon really is and that Jon has dragon blood running thru him and that dragons have a spidey-sense for that type of thing. Drogon confirmed that for us last episode with Jon. If the dragons cant sense Jon Snow because he is dead from a frozen javelin, they’d have no idea where to go and wouldn’t show up.
No live bait – No dragon
The Location itself was shown in a vision last episode where Bran is warging the flock of crows, we see the NK on the same rock that our heroes get stranded on, maybe this shows that the NK has been planning on this for a while. The location itself is key for setting a trap and catching a dragon, it keeps Jon in one place so the dragons can sense him and the water is a great way to INSURE you finish off a dragon by drowning if it does get hit by the javelin. Also forces Dany to leave because it confirms the dragons death once it sinks opposed to her not wanting to leave her potentially wounded dragon.
If what we see in the show is not just bad story and is happening for a reason, possibly all part of the NK’s plan to catch a dragon, this means the NK is super scary ill. This is the most we have learned by far about the Others thus far in the show.
Caveat….could this also tie into why that wight walker passed on Sam? Intelligence might mean possibility for motive….
Jon will ride the Ice Dragon. Still three heads, Yo!
G’day. First off, love the show, chef’s kisses all around!
Just wanted to possibly add some perspective to the looming question of “Why the F are they sprinting through this season?!” (and subsequently have invented teleportation in Westeros.)
My brother-in-law is VP of _____ at HBO (don’t want him to get in any trouble) and a good college buddy of mine is head of the Dragon unit for VFX for the show and here is what I have drawn from them. I cannot 100% confirm validity and while some of this may be very obvious, it didn’t really click for me until I had it spelled out.
Apparently, the decision to do less episodes actually came from Georgie boy himself. We all know that Martin gave D&D the beats that they needed to hit the conclusion of the story, but apparently he also included that they limit the total episode number. HBO went along with it because less episodes actually means more money for everyone involved (Martin, HBO, D&D, Cast/Crew).
Traditional TV models: more episodes = more ads = more money, but HBO has a subscription model where they already have our money, and people are willing to pay to get the whole story, regardless if it is 80 eps or 73 eps…therefore if there are less it is making everybody a little bit more money per episode.
While this isn’t a bonafide press release or anything, it makes sense to me and I guess the answer is decidedly un-punk rock, money. I suppose you could theorize based on the hopeful realization that Nick brought up at the end of this weeks episode; George R. R. wants D&D to include less detail, move faster, and have looser more “Hollywood” logic that would allow him to write a richer more fleshed out version in his books, duplicating his potential sales because, as Nick put it, the books will feel like a completely new and different story.
I guess either way, I feel like I hear Tim saying “Gimme Moneyyyy” while looking at G.R.R.M. :/
Sorry for the long post, keep up the great work, sad to listen to this thing wind down to a close.
Cheers!
First off – I know how much effort it takes for you to do the show and I really do appreciate it, and I will always listen in for your well reasoned opinions. However I think – obviously only my own opinion – one issue with the format of cast of thrones is that you are all book fundamentalists. It would be very interesting to hear the opinions of someone who hasn’t read the books (like the vast majority of the tv show audience), or even someone who thinks the books aren’t all that! (we do exist…)
Given that the tv show and the books are (and always have been) very different things, I don’t know how useful it is to keep going back to things that are only book reader knowledge (ie, that Westeros is literally the size of South America in the books – it certainly doesn’t seem that way in the tv show, and so…it ISN’T that way in the tv show.) Likewise, missing book plotlines don’t matter in the show, as they simply aren’t there. Doesn’t mean they aren’t important in the books, just means the books and the tv show are different.
What matters is that the plotlines in the show are progressing well – and of course, that is where you may have good points! I can see the argument that D&D are basing their storytelling around plot points and set pieces and working backwards from there. I can certainly think of a better way to justify the beyond the wall raid – say Sam Tarly turned up at castle black with a dozen stolen books, says “Here’s what the citadel has on wights – but it’s confused and contradictory. We don’t really know what works, and we need to know before they arrive. If only we had one to experiment on…”. That said, for brave, dense and obsessed with the wights Jon, the plan as stands does make sense if it stands a chance of persuading Cersei.
Likewise, I’m not sure why you are so keen for Littlefinger to fail so easily – he’s been setting up this entire war, and surely we haven’t seen his final play for the Iron Throne yet. And getting to fight two teenage sisters who never liked each other to begin with and have both been on their own terrible but very separate journeys hardly seems unreasonable.
Anyway, we will see!
Bold move podcasting at 8am. Just goes to show that you guys can handle anything and still deliver a phenomenal podcast, be it early mornings or vengeful gardeners with leaf blowers.